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Using a telescoping mast as part of the radiator for 160m ant portable operation


David Garcia
 

I'm sure i'm not the first to ask, but I have this crazy idea to utilize my Mastwerks 10m mast as part of an antenna radiator for 160m operation.  Using nothing but Buddipole parts starting from the top, the antenna would be constructed with: a capacity hat, rigid shock-cord whip, and two low-band coils terminating to a VersaTee.  From the VersaTee (connected to 10m Mastwerks mast), I would either: drop a wire to the ground to a feedpoint plate with radials or folded-counterpoise; or somehow use the mast as part of the radiator.  I concern about reflection when using the wire method, but would wrapping the wire around the mast help?  I really don't like using fiberglass mast because i'm always concerned about stability and causing property damage or injury to persons.

My goal is to erect a very tall vertical for 160m antenna for portable operation.

Can anyone critique or comment on my idea, share experiences, or offer alternative with only using Buddipole parts?


Jim Berry
 

David:  Would probably have to be trial and error until you find a set up that works. Patience might be one of the greatest assets in putting a set up that works OK on 160M.  I am sure everyone would love to know if youare able to put together a system that works well.  Also, since most 160M activity is at night, that adds another issue since I usually do my portable set ups during the day time.  Good luck and let us know of your success.

73,
Jim WA3JAT


-----Original Message-----
From: David Garcia via groups.io <dgarcia109@...>
To: main@Buddipole.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Nov 17, 2020 1:14 pm
Subject: [Buddipole] Using a telescoping mast as part of the radiator for 160m ant portable operation

I'm sure i'm not the first to ask, but I have this crazy idea to utilize my Mastwerks 10m mast as part of an antenna radiator for 160m operation.  Using nothing but Buddipole parts starting from the top, the antenna would be constructed with: a capacity hat, rigid shock-cord whip, and two low-band coils terminating to a VersaTee.  From the VersaTee (connected to 10m Mastwerks mast), I would either: drop a wire to the ground to a feedpoint plate with radials or folded-counterpoise; or somehow use the mast as part of the radiator.  I concern about reflection when using the wire method, but would wrapping the wire around the mast help?  I really don't like using fiberglass mast because i'm always concerned about stability and causing property damage or injury to persons.

My goal is to erect a very tall vertical for 160m antenna for portable operation.

Can anyone critique or comment on my idea, share experiences, or offer alternative with only using Buddipole parts?


Raymond Sills
 

HI David:

One thing to consider:  when you have something "very tall", you will probably need to add some guy lines.  But, part of the fun of Buddipole parts is that you can whip up all sorts of configurations, and see how they work.  Worth a try!

73 de Ray    
K2ULR    




-----Original Message-----
From: David Garcia via groups.io <dgarcia109@...>
To: main@Buddipole.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Nov 17, 2020 1:14 pm
Subject: [Buddipole] Using a telescoping mast as part of the radiator for 160m ant portable operation

I'm sure i'm not the first to ask, but I have this crazy idea to utilize my Mastwerks 10m mast as part of an antenna radiator for 160m operation.  Using nothing but Buddipole parts starting from the top, the antenna would be constructed with: a capacity hat, rigid shock-cord whip, and two low-band coils terminating to a VersaTee.  From the VersaTee (connected to 10m Mastwerks mast), I would either: drop a wire to the ground to a feedpoint plate with radials or folded-counterpoise; or somehow use the mast as part of the radiator.  I concern about reflection when using the wire method, but would wrapping the wire around the mast help?  I really don't like using fiberglass mast because i'm always concerned about stability and causing property damage or injury to persons.

My goal is to erect a very tall vertical for 160m antenna for portable operation.

Can anyone critique or comment on my idea, share experiences, or offer alternative with only using Buddipole parts?


David
 

David

 

Using the mast as part of the radiator system is a known technique but it is problematic with a telescopic mast since typically the sections are electrically isolated from each other.

That means that the mast is NOT conductive from one end to the other.

 

Your thought of dropping a wire from the top of the mast to the ground would be the only reliable way to utilize the height that the mast provides.

 

Winding your wire around the mast would not be a great idea as it will increase the coupling to the mast which will result in current flowing in the mast, and since the lowest section would then have RF currents flowing you should then avoid touching the mast. Having said that I don’t think that having that wire close to the mast will be a problem and since you MUST guy the mast, you could sneak the wire down one of the guy lines, or maybe use the wire as a guy line.

 

I see that you are trying to get as much physical length as possible but bear in mind that it will still be an electrically short antenna on 160 and that means that even with the capacity hat it will have a narrow bandwidth.

 

Good luck with your experiment, it is very ambitious !

 

73
David , KI6AWR

 

From: main@Buddipole.groups.io <main@Buddipole.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Garcia via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:14 AM
To: main@Buddipole.groups.io
Subject: [Buddipole] Using a telescoping mast as part of the radiator for 160m ant portable operation

 

I'm sure i'm not the first to ask, but I have this crazy idea to utilize my Mastwerks 10m mast as part of an antenna radiator for 160m operation.  Using nothing but Buddipole parts starting from the top, the antenna would be constructed with: a capacity hat, rigid shock-cord whip, and two low-band coils terminating to a VersaTee.  From the VersaTee (connected to 10m Mastwerks mast), I would either: drop a wire to the ground to a feedpoint plate with radials or folded-counterpoise; or somehow use the mast as part of the radiator.  I concern about reflection when using the wire method, but would wrapping the wire around the mast help?  I really don't like using fiberglass mast because i'm always concerned about stability and causing property damage or injury to persons.

My goal is to erect a very tall vertical for 160m antenna for portable operation.

Can anyone critique or comment on my idea, share experiences, or offer alternative with only using Buddipole parts?


David Garcia
 

Thank you Jim WA3JAT.  Trial and error is the name of the ham game.

I plan to experiment next week while off from work to see if the design works.  I'm copying the design from the MA160V, and if it works, I'll post it here.  I plan to use a spreadsheet to keep track of the measurements.

I would mainly use this configuration on field day during night time operation; winter field day coming soon!

73,
David KD2BNT

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020, 04:19:18 PM EST, Jim Berry via groups.io <wa3jat@...> wrote:


David:  Would probably have to be trial and error until you find a set up that works. Patience might be one of the greatest assets in putting a set up that works OK on 160M.  I am sure everyone would love to know if youare able to put together a system that works well.  Also, since most 160M activity is at night, that adds another issue since I usually do my portable set ups during the day time.  Good luck and let us know of your success.

73,
Jim WA3JAT


-----Original Message-----
From: David Garcia via groups.io <dgarcia109@...>
To: main@Buddipole.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Nov 17, 2020 1:14 pm
Subject: [Buddipole] Using a telescoping mast as part of the radiator for 160m ant portable operation

I'm sure i'm not the first to ask, but I have this crazy idea to utilize my Mastwerks 10m mast as part of an antenna radiator for 160m operation.  Using nothing but Buddipole parts starting from the top, the antenna would be constructed with: a capacity hat, rigid shock-cord whip, and two low-band coils terminating to a VersaTee.  From the VersaTee (connected to 10m Mastwerks mast), I would either: drop a wire to the ground to a feedpoint plate with radials or folded-counterpoise; or somehow use the mast as part of the radiator.  I concern about reflection when using the wire method, but would wrapping the wire around the mast help?  I really don't like using fiberglass mast because i'm always concerned about stability and causing property damage or injury to persons.

My goal is to erect a very tall vertical for 160m antenna for portable operation.

Can anyone critique or comment on my idea, share experiences, or offer alternative with only using Buddipole parts?


David Garcia
 

hi Ray K2ULR,

Yes, the mastwerks mast comes with a guying system.  no worries there.  

Thanks for the encouragement and I'll let everyone know if my tests are successful next week

73,
David KD2BNT


On Tuesday, November 17, 2020, 04:23:24 PM EST, Raymond Sills via groups.io <raysills3@...> wrote:


HI David:

One thing to consider:  when you have something "very tall", you will probably need to add some guy lines.  But, part of the fun of Buddipole parts is that you can whip up all sorts of configurations, and see how they work.  Worth a try!

73 de Ray    
K2ULR    




-----Original Message-----
From: David Garcia via groups.io <dgarcia109@...>
To: main@Buddipole.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Nov 17, 2020 1:14 pm
Subject: [Buddipole] Using a telescoping mast as part of the radiator for 160m ant portable operation

I'm sure i'm not the first to ask, but I have this crazy idea to utilize my Mastwerks 10m mast as part of an antenna radiator for 160m operation.  Using nothing but Buddipole parts starting from the top, the antenna would be constructed with: a capacity hat, rigid shock-cord whip, and two low-band coils terminating to a VersaTee.  From the VersaTee (connected to 10m Mastwerks mast), I would either: drop a wire to the ground to a feedpoint plate with radials or folded-counterpoise; or somehow use the mast as part of the radiator.  I concern about reflection when using the wire method, but would wrapping the wire around the mast help?  I really don't like using fiberglass mast because i'm always concerned about stability and causing property damage or injury to persons.

My goal is to erect a very tall vertical for 160m antenna for portable operation.

Can anyone critique or comment on my idea, share experiences, or offer alternative with only using Buddipole parts?


David Garcia
 

Hi David KI6AWR,

Thank you for the background information.  I agree with your assessment of electrical isolation and safety concerns, and I now plan to move forward with your recommendations.  Using the wire alongside the guy line is a great idea that I've not thought of, and if I have enough time, I'll give it a shot too.  No worries about guying the mast.  The Mastwerks mast has a guying system.  Another member expressed concerns about that too.

I'll share my findings when I do a test deployment, ho\opefully, next week.  If it works, I plan to use this configuration for winter field day.


73,
David KD2BNT


On Tuesday, November 17, 2020, 06:08:21 PM EST, David <dahaycock@...> wrote:


David

 

Using the mast as part of the radiator system is a known technique but it is problematic with a telescopic mast since typically the sections are electrically isolated from each other.

That means that the mast is NOT conductive from one end to the other.

 

Your thought of dropping a wire from the top of the mast to the ground would be the only reliable way to utilize the height that the mast provides.

 

Winding your wire around the mast would not be a great idea as it will increase the coupling to the mast which will result in current flowing in the mast, and since the lowest section would then have RF currents flowing you should then avoid touching the mast. Having said that I don’t think that having that wire close to the mast will be a problem and since you MUST guy the mast, you could sneak the wire down one of the guy lines, or maybe use the wire as a guy line.

 

I see that you are trying to get as much physical length as possible but bear in mind that it will still be an electrically short antenna on 160 and that means that even with the capacity hat it will have a narrow bandwidth.

 

Good luck with your experiment, it is very ambitious !

 

73
David , KI6AWR

 

From: main@Buddipole.groups.io <main@Buddipole.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Garcia via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:14 AM
To: main@Buddipole.groups.io
Subject: [Buddipole] Using a telescoping mast as part of the radiator for 160m ant portable operation

 

I'm sure i'm not the first to ask, but I have this crazy idea to utilize my Mastwerks 10m mast as part of an antenna radiator for 160m operation.  Using nothing but Buddipole parts starting from the top, the antenna would be constructed with: a capacity hat, rigid shock-cord whip, and two low-band coils terminating to a VersaTee.  From the VersaTee (connected to 10m Mastwerks mast), I would either: drop a wire to the ground to a feedpoint plate with radials or folded-counterpoise; or somehow use the mast as part of the radiator.  I concern about reflection when using the wire method, but would wrapping the wire around the mast help?  I really don't like using fiberglass mast because i'm always concerned about stability and causing property damage or injury to persons.

My goal is to erect a very tall vertical for 160m antenna for portable operation.

Can anyone critique or comment on my idea, share experiences, or offer alternative with only using Buddipole parts?